Talk:Moses 6:48-68

Inner man (v. 65)

I'm still playing with my new toy, the electronic TDNT--here's an excerpt under anthropos (sorry the accented Greek characters aren't pasting for some reason...):

ὁ ἔξω ἄνθρωπος and ὁ ἔσω ἄνθρωπος: ὁ ἔξω ἄνθρωπος according to his physical and mortal side; ὁ ἔσω ἄνθρωπος (or ὁ κρυπτὸς τῆς καρδίας ἄνθρωπος, 1 Pt. 3:4) == man—including the non-Christian (R. 7:22)9 as well as the Christian (2 C. 4:16; Eph. 3:16; cf. 1 Pt. 3:4)—according to his Godward, immortal side.

Already in Plat. Resp., IX, 589a we find the expression τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ὁ ἐντὸς ἄνθρωπος == Resp., IV, 439d: τὸ λογιστικὸν τῆς ψυχῆς == the capacity of thought identical with moral disposition; cf. Plot. Enn., V, 1, 10 (II, p. 173, 24 f., Volkm.): οἷον λέγει Πλάτων τὸν εἴσω ἄνθρωπον. Later Plato calls the νοῦς: ὁ ἐν ἡμῖν πρὸς ἀλρ́θειαν ἄνθρωπος (Plant., 42) or: ὁ ἄνθρωπος ἐν ἀνθρώπῳ (Congr., 97); in Det. Pot. Ins., 22 f. he defines the λογικὴ διάνοια as ὁ πρὸς ἀλήθειαν ἄνθρωπος and ὁ ἄνθρωπος ἐν ἑκάστου τῇ ψυχῇ. In the Hermetic literature there is distinguished from Adam, the earthly body of the first man, ὁ ἔσω αὐτοῦ ἄνθρωπος ὁ πνευματικός called φῶς; the ἔξω ἄνθρωπος (Adam) is its prison (Zosimos, in Reitzenstein Poim., 104 f.).10 Thus each man bears in himself a divine being: ὁ οὐσιώδης ἄνθρωπος (Corp. Herm., I, 15) or ὁ ἔννους ἄνθρωπος (I, 18 and 21) or ὁ ἐνδιάθετος ἄνθρωπος (XIII, 7) which languishes in the body as in a prison. Finally, we should compare the anthropology of the Marcosites, who believe that the interior homo of the redeemed, the filius a Patre, ascends at death to the higher world, while the body remains in the world and the soul (anima) falls to the demiurge (Iren., I, 21, 5). Paul thus follows an idea widespread in the Hellenistic Gnosis and mysticism of his day,11 though also known in Hellenistic Judaism.

[Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964-c1976. Vols. 5-9 edited by Gerhard Friedrich. Vol. 10 compiled by Ronald Pitkin. (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (1:365). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.]

I don't really know enough Gnosticism or mysticism to understand this very well (which is why I'm simply pasting it...), but it seems there is an interesting and uniquely Mormon argument to be made regarding the development of this Gnostic idea.... --RobertC 23:17, 19 Dec 2006 (UTC)

Okay, Robert: where did you get the toy, and how much will it cost me (I didn't know it was available electronically!)? --Joe Spencer 14:11, 20 Dec 2006 (UTC)

Looks like $200 here.--Rob Fergus 14:44, 20 Dec 2006 (UTC)

(I got interrupted while typing up the following, so sorry for repeating what Rob said...):

I broke down and got the Logos/Libronix Original Languages Library which includes the unabridged TDNT. The cheapest place I found (thanks to Jim F.'s recommendation who got the tip from Ben S.--my sense is this is becoming a pretty standard platform for bible scholars, or at least for grad students like Ben...) to buy was Koorong.com (here's the package I got--notice the $416 price is in Aussie dollars, which is currently .78 of a US dollar, so there's a 22% discount right there) who runs discounts from time to time of about 20% off (you have to pay higher shipping, and they needed me to fax a copy of my credit card to them--weird and perhaps dangerous, but worth the discount to me...). So I'm guessing I paid about $275 US for the whole Original Languages library (here's a complete list of what's included). I rationalized this b/c the TDNT alone is about $200 here (I haven't checked if you can find it cheaper on ebay or some other discount Christian bookseller--I don't think it will be much cheaper b/c to activate the software you need an account with Logos who somehow seems to keep track of the licenses pretty well...) and, well, we're studying the NT next year (and one reason I studied finance was so I could afford such indulgements!). I think the Anchor Bible Dictionary is next on my wish list (the Anchor Bible itself isn't available...yet..., but notice 27 volumes of the International Theological Commentary is, though it'll cost you half a grand! I also noticed the 12 volume New International Greek Testament Commentary and wondered if it was any good, though now I'm just pipe-dreaming...). Sorry for an overkill answer.... --RobertC 14:59, 20 Dec 2006 (UTC)

If you're trying to think of something for me for Christmas, Robert... (I just gave in and got the New Mormon Studies CD-ROM, so I doubt my wife would let me get another $200+ CD-ROM for a couple weeks). --Joe Spencer 14:03, 21 Dec 2006 (UTC)

If anyone's interested in getting Joe this for Christmas, here's a pretty good end-of-year sale that Koorong's running (25% for purchases over $300, otherwise 15% off...). --RobertC 16:55, 22 Dec 2006 (UTC)