Talk:Alma 59:1-63:17

Verse 60:33

I'm not sure exactly how to intepret Moroni's quotation from the Lord here since Moroni is applying it to Pahoran but later Moroni decides Pahoran isn't a traitor Alma 62:1. In other words, the idea I get from that verse is that Pahoran didn't have to repent of what Moroni thought he did because he wasn't actually doing what Moroni thought he was doing. It could be that this was a quote the Lord had said in another context that Moroni was applying to this context (incorrectly as it turned out). Or, it could be that the Lord did think Pahoran needed to repent and Pahoran did repent when he got Moroni's epistle. Maybe there is a third possibility where Moroni asked for the Lord specifically what he should do in this certain situation (as Moroni understood it) so then the Lord told him what he should do in that situation even though it turned out that that situation didn't exist. Maybe there just isn't enough to go on in the scriptures to understand which of the three are possibilities. I wonder if others have comments on whether they think this third possibility I threw out really is a reasonable possibility. --Matthew Faulconer 06:07, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I'm tempted to see this as a case of Moroni's temper getting the better of him...leading him to perhaps mistake his own strong feelings for revelation? Do we have other examples of that in the scriptures? Maybe Moroni offers us a cautionary tale here, rather than a hero to emulate? Rob Fergus 19:22, 22 Nov 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it is possible for people, even good people, to mistake their own strong feelings as revelation. This may very well be the case here. But I feel uncomfortable going there. I am reminded of Nephi challenging those who say his words don't come from Christ in 2 Ne 33:11. I can't imagine standing face to face with Moroni and saying to him "I don't think the words you attribute to Christ here really came from Christ." Are you comfortable with this reading? I would feel differently if it seemed that the scriptures themselves suggested that Moroni was mistaken, but I don't see that. Like you, I am interested in looking at examples in the scriptures where people incorrectly attribute something to God. (I can't think of any off-hand.) --Matthew Faulconer 07:10, 24 Nov 2005 (UTC)

As I read this verse I was struck that it seemed to be stronger and harsher than the political actions we are counseled by the brethren to take in current times. Then I saw two little words in verse 33 as being possibly important, "unto me." Perhaps when this is added to "the Lord saith" it sign-posted a more personal, one-time revelation to Moroni and not a general, applicable-at-all-times doctrine. For example of another personalized use, in 1 Ne. 17: 53 "the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thine hand again unto thy brethren, and...I will shock them." This is obviously not something the Lord condones in other situations with our less cooperative brethren!--67.177.10.45 19:11, 1 Jun 2006 (UTC)