Talk:Alma 9:1-5 - Revision history

KurtElieson: Moving content to regrouped page

2014-03-03T02:02:36Z

Moving content to regrouped page

MJ: reply on "guessing correctly"

2005-04-20T13:48:29Z

reply on "guessing correctly"

Matthewfaulconer: Response to MJ

2005-04-20T07:52:01Z

Response to MJ

MJ: thought on although

2005-04-19T13:54:10Z

thought on although

MJ at 13:53, 19 April 2005

2005-04-19T13:53:28Z

Matthewfaulconer: forgot to sign my comment

2005-04-17T17:56:21Z

forgot to sign my comment

Matthewfaulconer: Although

2005-04-17T17:56:05Z

Although

New page

I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although."

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−	I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although." --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 19:56, 17 Apr 2005 (CEST)

−	:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it. This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]]. Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that. So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen." They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)
−
−	~~::Hi MJ,~~
−	::I found the reference to Mark 14:29 and the OED very helpful. I went ahead and posted something along those lines to the lexical notes. Do you think someone should add something there about the "guessing correctly" interpretation? I didn't put anything in because I wasn't sure how to fit that view in with Alma's comments in verse 3.
−
−	::Also I don't have the OED so I tried to minimize how much I attributed to it. Please fix that if I messed it up or if you think there's more I could add to it that would help. Thanks for the response, [[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 09:52, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)
−
−
−	~~:Hello Matthew,~~
−	~~:The "guessing correctly" thought stems from [[Helaman 16:16]], when the people were in a similar state of unbelief. But in this context I am unsure if it fits.~~
−
−	:I wonder about the degree of unbelief among these people. They seem to clearly state that they would not believe Alma if great things came to pass that he prophesied (i.e. the destruction of the earth or destruction of their city). Would they have been more open to prophesies of small things? Or, does their unbelief appear because of the message and/or the messenger? A more applicable question might be: Do members of the Church limit what they will believe because of the message and/or messenger? These verses show how easily some people dismiss prophesy or revelation, even on a seemingly small note (That God sent no more than one man). These verses alert us to this and can help us personally avoid getting in this mindset. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:48, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)

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	::Also I don't have the OED so I tried to minimize how much I attributed to it. Please fix that if I messed it up or if you think there's more I could add to it that would help. Thanks for the response, [[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 09:52, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)		::Also I don't have the OED so I tried to minimize how much I attributed to it. Please fix that if I messed it up or if you think there's more I could add to it that would help. Thanks for the response, [[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 09:52, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)
		+
		+
		+	:Hello Matthew,
		+	:The "guessing correctly" thought stems from [[Helaman 16:16]], when the people were in a similar state of unbelief. But in this context I am unsure if it fits.
		+
		+	:I wonder about the degree of unbelief among these people. They seem to clearly state that they would not believe Alma if great things came to pass that he prophesied (i.e. the destruction of the earth or destruction of their city). Would they have been more open to prophesies of small things? Or, does their unbelief appear because of the message and/or the messenger? A more applicable question might be: Do members of the Church limit what they will believe because of the message and/or messenger? These verses show how easily some people dismiss prophesy or revelation, even on a seemingly small note (That God sent no more than one man). These verses alert us to this and can help us personally avoid getting in this mindset. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:48, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)

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	:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it. This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]]. Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that. So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen." They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)		:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it. This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]]. Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that. So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen." They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)
		+
		+	::Hi MJ,
		+	::I found the reference to Mark 14:29 and the OED very helpful. I went ahead and posted something along those lines to the lexical notes. Do you think someone should add something there about the "guessing correctly" interpretation? I didn't put anything in because I wasn't sure how to fit that view in with Alma's comments in verse 3.
		+
		+	::Also I don't have the OED so I tried to minimize how much I attributed to it. Please fix that if I messed it up or if you think there's more I could add to it that would help. Thanks for the response, [[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 09:52, 20 Apr 2005 (CEST)

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 I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although." --[[User:Matthewfaulconer|Matthew Faulconer]] 19:56, 17 Apr 2005 (CEST)
-:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it.  This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]].  Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that.   So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen."  They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly.
+:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it.  This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]].  Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that.   So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen."  They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly. [[User:MJ|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)
-−
-:In my mind this makes verse 4 easier to understand.  It seems silly to for the people to tell Alma that they will not believe him when he preaches something dramatic such as the destruction of the city.  It would make more sense to me if they told Alma they would not believe him if he were right about some small thing such as the weather tomorrow. If this is way off or makes no sense, please delete. [[User:MJ|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)

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	I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although." --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 19:56, 17 Apr 2005 (CEST)		I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although." --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 19:56, 17 Apr 2005 (CEST)
		+
		+	:I think "even if" may be the proper way to read it. This would be in line with the way although is used in [[Mark 14:29]]. Although [according to the Oxford English Dictionary] could be read as even though, though..even, though, be it that, granting that, or supposing that. So it may be that the people are saying, "supposing that the earth passes away, and this is what you preach, we still will not believe that you knew this would happen." They may be granting Alma the possibility of "guessing" correctly.
		+
		+	:In my mind this makes verse 4 easier to understand. It seems silly to for the people to tell Alma that they will not believe him when he preaches something dramatic such as the destruction of the city. It would make more sense to me if they told Alma they would not believe him if he were right about some small thing such as the weather tomorrow. If this is way off or makes no sense, please delete. [[User:MJ\|MJ]] 15:53, 19 Apr 2005 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:56, 17 April 2005
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−	I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although."	+	I ask this question because given Alma's comments in verse 3 it seems that verse 2 means something like "do you think we should believe what just one person tells us even if he tells us that the earth will pass away." But, in my mind even if means about the opposite of although. I am hoping someone else can explain how to interpret "although." --[[User:Matthewfaulconer\|Matthew Faulconer]] 19:56, 17 Apr 2005 (CEST)